tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post951104683162312681..comments2023-09-28T08:40:45.617-04:00Comments on Danielle Takacs: Galloping Around the Golden Horseshoe: Why the NDP Should Go NowDanielle Takacshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07298674716918123751noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-43011826414273155082009-09-15T11:41:11.324-04:002009-09-15T11:41:11.324-04:00Wheatsheaf, I could give you 10 simple reasons (in...Wheatsheaf, I could give you 10 simple reasons (in no particular order) why people should vote Liberal this time:<br />1) Real leadership at Copenhagen on the environment in December (Ignatieff has endorsed many of the same principles as the NDP)<br />2) Finally carrying out the Kelowna Accords to help Aboriginals<br />3) A real child care plan<br />4) Investments in research and innovation to compete with the U.S., India and China<br />5) An independent foreign policy<br />6) A team of qualified and capable ministers (compare that to the current batch)<br />7) Ignatieff would bring in a collobarative working spirit to Parliament (wouldn't that be refreshing!)<br />8) A renewed post-secondary education plan to help students and strengthen our universities and colleges.<br />9) Liberals would always be looking 5-10 years into the future with their policies instead of the next election.<br />10) More prudent management of the deficit.<br /><br />Those by themselves are not sufficient to win an election (and there would be much more in campaign), it's a starting point, but I think we both know Canada is better off with a Liberal instead of Conservative government (of course you'd like an NDP government, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for you to realize that Liberals are closer to NDP values). Jack Layton admitted as much by his actions last fall.Danielle Takacshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07298674716918123751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-15594341469413373062009-09-15T11:34:04.087-04:002009-09-15T11:34:04.087-04:00Northwestern_lad:
The NDP have helped get Harper i...Northwestern_lad:<br />The NDP have helped get Harper into office, by giving him a free ride in the 06 campaign, and parotting his false spin about the Green Shift in the 08 one. The bottom line is that Liberals DO have to accept responsibility for their past two elections losses. There is no doubt about that. As do the NDP for campaigning for government while spending the max and coming away with the result they did. But that doesn't mean the NDP didn't help the Conservatives do as well a they did. Even Tom Flanagan has noted how the NDP help get Harper more seats.<br /><br />It's not arrogant to point that out or to note that the NDP have more in common with Liberals than Conservatives. Throughout Canadian history, the NDP have always had more accomplishments with Liberal minorities than Conservative. Whatever meagre conessions you get this time (which so far are none), won't compare to the 2005 Budget. The fiscal update last fall should have proven to you you can't work with Harper, instead he's just going to embarass you as much as he can until the campaign and then when it comes, he will mock your claims that you tried to make Parliament work.Danielle Takacshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07298674716918123751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-12375703214055114452009-09-15T09:34:57.604-04:002009-09-15T09:34:57.604-04:00Sorry Danielle, I am still not buying your Big-L v...Sorry Danielle, I am still not buying your Big-L vision of the world. <br /><br />As NW Lad points out, your post drips of self-entitlement. Liberals have decided to not support Harper, not because of any altruistic motives, but because they realize that their supporters are loosing confidence. You could have voted against Harper any number of time in the last few years, but you did not. Heck you could not even be accountable on non-non-confidence bills. Now, want voters are screaming no to an election, you want the NDP to roll over and die. <br /><br />As to your comment of there being "plenty of good reasons to vote for the Liberals" in your previous post. Maybe you should read it again. It reads like a stump speech that was never read. It states why Harper is bad, and why Canada needs to protect the status quo. It is high on rhetoric and low on suggestions. This is not say that I did not think it was well written. Simply that it does not stand for what you suggest. The only reason it gives me to vote Liberal is, somehow, Ignatieff is better than Harper. There needs to be a better reason than that or else your party is in trouble.Wheatsheafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06113433537299723771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-49682547819326564662009-09-15T08:41:28.115-04:002009-09-15T08:41:28.115-04:00Lost me right here:
"who helped to put Harpe...Lost me right here:<br /><br />"who helped to put Harper in office in the first place"<br /><br />Such arrogance. The people have had the chance to send your party back into power each of the last two elections and what did they choose to do? They elected fewer and fewer of your party each time. The people make their choice and it is up to us to convince them to vote otherwise with actual ideas, platforms and alike. That's why they haven't chosen your party and until you can accept basic facts like those, then we have nothing to take from your party at all.northwestern_ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16833632861345350726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-32151111680069227052009-09-14T23:18:02.633-04:002009-09-14T23:18:02.633-04:00Litz: Now is better than March and those are the o...Litz: Now is better than March and those are the only options in my eyes. I think we will have a strong campaign which will change the poll dynamic in our favour.<br /><br />Robert/Wheatsheaf:<br />Believe or me or not, I do happen to believe there are times where the NDP and Liberals share a common interest. I think there are enough reasons to believe that an election this fall is in BOTH our parties interests this fall. It's now or March though - don't fall into the trap Dion did of thinking Harper wouldn't trigger an election himself when it suits him. Harper is already trying to embarass you this Friday by forcing you to vote in favour of a trade deal Layton has strongly opposed. That's just the beginning. <br /><br />If we go in March, I still think the Libs will win, but I think you'll do even worse tha now, so well it's your party's choice, I just like to see Harper replaced sooner rather than later for reasons I said in the post before this one (which contained plenty of good reasons to vote for the Liberals by the way Wheatsheaf).<br /><br />Though it might be nice for you guys in the future to stop seeing all Liberals as one monolithic group (just as one example, I've been a longtime supporter of electoral reform). <br /><br />And keeping the tone a little more civil wouldn't be so bad either :).<br /><br />That's it for me this evening...Danielle Takacshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07298674716918123751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-72493681005460489212009-09-14T22:58:53.120-04:002009-09-14T22:58:53.120-04:001) please don't speak of my heart of hearts - ...1) please don't speak of my heart of hearts - because you don't capture the harden sentiments toward liberals that lies within.<br /><br />2) you have hit it right on why my hearts of hearts cannot support the Liberals. It is because of Liberals arrogance, sense of righteousness and entitlement. All your reasons for getting ride of the NDP can be summed up as "NDP steal Liberal votes". Well we don't. I cannot support a party whose track record is based on longevity and not action. <br /><br />3) Stop telling me why me and my bunch of want-to-be do-gooders should role over, and start telling me why I should even consider voting for your guys.Wheatsheafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06113433537299723771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-21212204531814532322009-09-14T22:47:58.766-04:002009-09-14T22:47:58.766-04:00I do not think we should go for an eletion right n...I do not think we should go for an eletion right now, or in a few months, unless something drastic happens.<br /> Nanos was very cruel to Ignatieff tonight..almost as bad as he was, with Dion.A Eliz.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11088834823455226692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-58900282487464051012009-09-14T22:31:30.736-04:002009-09-14T22:31:30.736-04:00Robert
I so don't care. Always look at the s...Robert<br /><br />I so don't care. Always look at the source. LOL.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-37450296239282112162009-09-14T22:05:15.117-04:002009-09-14T22:05:15.117-04:00but why don't you just tell me which of those ...<i>but why don't you just tell me which of those reasons I provided are wrong and why?</i><br /><br />I barely glanced at your reasons. The day the NDP starts taking advice from liberals is they day they should just throw in the towel. You'd feel the same way if I posted advice for the Liberals. You still haven't answered my question though. Why should the NDP trust the Liberals?<br /><br />And I shrugged off Steve, not Copenhagen because he's an imbecile. That you would fashion such a strawman demonstrates why we dippers don't trust and have no use for liberals these days.Robert McClellandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11441059623685149683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-38369710175651186912009-09-14T21:25:10.372-04:002009-09-14T21:25:10.372-04:00As for the NDP propping up Harper short-term, ther...As for the NDP propping up Harper short-term, there will likely be a confidence motion Oct. 1st or soon after. If the NDP support Harper then, he will surely rejig the calendar to move all opposition days/confidence motions to Noveember - meaning voting down the government means a Christmas election. If the NDP oppose a fall election, what are the odds they'd support a Christmas one?<br /><br />Then the House rises till January and then bringing down Harper would mean an election during the Olympics, another unlikely possibility.<br /><br />So it's go this Friday, go Oct. 1 or when Harper orchestrates his own defeat post-Olympics in March. Anything else I would say is very unlikely.Danielle Takacshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07298674716918123751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-82564799402848311082009-09-14T21:03:21.745-04:002009-09-14T21:03:21.745-04:00You raise some valid points here, but, then again,...You raise some valid points here, but, then again, I really doubt the NDP is actually going to prop up the Tories for any significant amount of time. If the Conservative EI bill comes in separate from anything else (no poison pills, no omnibus bills), then there's no reason for the NDP (or the Liberals, for that matter) to oppose it since it is at least an improvement. But the EI won't be enough to entice the NDP to support the Conservatives on an ongoing basis, so the government will just fall anyway as soon as the Liberals introduce a non-confidence motion or the Conservatives table an economic update.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-7194745981445476272009-09-14T20:59:03.811-04:002009-09-14T20:59:03.811-04:00And it's interesting that you shrugged off Cop...And it's interesting that you shrugged off Copenhagen so easily (reason 5 Steve was referring to).Danielle Takacshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07298674716918123751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-65875921790357848652009-09-14T20:57:28.540-04:002009-09-14T20:57:28.540-04:00If you don't want to take me at my word so be ...If you don't want to take me at my word so be it, but why don't you just tell me which of those reasons I provided are wrong and why?<br /><br />Again, it's now or Harper pulling the plug post-Olypmics and seeing everything he gave the NDP (if anything, he's offered nothing new so far) die on the order paper. Tell me how Harper's scenario is better for you again?Danielle Takacshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07298674716918123751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-56655455141178353832009-09-14T20:49:03.079-04:002009-09-14T20:49:03.079-04:00Have you ever said anything that turned out to be ...Have you ever said anything that turned out to be right, Steve. Good gawd, you libfloggers and your fantasies that supporting the Cons will DOOM! the NDP.Robert McClellandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11441059623685149683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-38676591562562966032009-09-14T20:45:45.570-04:002009-09-14T20:45:45.570-04:00So you don't have one. Thought not.So you don't have one. Thought not.Robert McClellandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11441059623685149683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-37921437627753949352009-09-14T20:35:04.653-04:002009-09-14T20:35:04.653-04:00Number 5 is the big one for me. Fast forward a fe...Number 5 is the big one for me. Fast forward a few weeks, if they prop up the government, they're faced with this glaring chasm that starts to shake at their core.Steve Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871113039374739208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-68656155366273386902009-09-14T20:32:36.429-04:002009-09-14T20:32:36.429-04:00Robert:
It really shouldn't matter who the sou...Robert:<br />It really shouldn't matter who the source of this message is. Why don't you paste those reasons to pass them on to some of your NDP friends without telling them who wrote them. I'd be honestly curious to see what they'd say. I do believe the NDP would fare better in an election now than one Harper would engineer in March. I think it's really tough to see how the NDP would do better on Harper's preffered timeline.<br /><br />CanadianSense:<br />I believe the NDP would be likely to do better now than later, so they're not self-destructing by helping pull the plug, only doing what's best in their party and their country's long-term interests. The media will never be kind to the NDP or the Bloc (except for maybe a week of "thank you NDP for saving us from covering a campaign"), so taking the MSM into consideration in their decision wouldn't be that wise.Danielle Takacshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07298674716918123751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-11076957866251503702009-09-14T20:31:51.847-04:002009-09-14T20:31:51.847-04:00I would generally support the NDP over any other p...I would generally support the NDP over any other party and I think you are right. The argument is very clear and NDP will ignore these facts at their peril. If the NDP is willing even once to support the Conservatives they will loose a great deal of support. <br /><br />So it goes. . .Kirbycairohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528654183160305877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-91098857606606108132009-09-14T20:19:07.967-04:002009-09-14T20:19:07.967-04:00As a Liberal supporter advising the NDP to self de...As a Liberal supporter advising the NDP to self destruct probably makes a lot of sense.<br /><br />Again why go now? Why not wait for a valid reason the Toronto Star (Editorial) MSM punditry don't see any valid reason. <br /><br />Beside a few insiders in the Iggy circle, what Liberal MP is calling for an election?<br /><br />The NDP will lose many seats, potenially 50% and that would result in a leadership convention for Jack.<br /><br />So explain why not wait, let Harper do all the dirty work in destroying the Liberals?<br /><br />The NDP and Bloc are independent of the Liberals and their survival insticnts are finey tuned.<br /><br />What party has trials this fall in Quebec?<br /><br />Jack and Gilles are no longer being ignored by the MSM as they have the ball. Trust me they won't be returning it back ANY time soon.CanadianSensehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01010880162544507668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7430921123281506833.post-51480599618674091492009-09-14T20:18:14.326-04:002009-09-14T20:18:14.326-04:00Now can you give me one reason why the NDP should ...Now can you give me one reason why the NDP should trust the Liberals.Robert McClellandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11441059623685149683noreply@blogger.com